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aeblank
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:47 am    Post subject: Application Question Reply with quote

Hi all. I recently posted over at AVS, and they sent me here. Long story short, I'm trying to help my parents out with their summertime use only, RTVs.

These replays will have OTA (through a channelmaster DTV box - i at one point hacked them to be able to use it and used WiRNs, but its been a few years) most of the time but also have cable for a few weeks in the summer. They used to only use them on cable, because I didn't want to run WiRNs at that location. Well, this summer they weren't able to use them on cable, either. That got me to looking, and I've learned about guide data ceasing and about LaHo.

Anyway, some questions.

With the use of Cable AND OTA, I'd like to set up both. Then I can log in to LaHo and disable the channels that aren't available (or they aren't using). So I'm back-ending the swap between cable and OTA. That way, my parents don't have to re-do setup twice a year to swap back and forth. Would that plan work?

Does LaHo have remote codes for my DTV box, or could it? I'm not sure which replays were "hacked" to work with one, and it'd be nice to just know. It's a channelmaster 700 or 7000 or something like that. I can find the exact model, its just not handy right now.

I read reference to having to log in (or create an account?) from the network that the replays are on. Why is that? Just so the service knows what account to associate the replay with (for the auto-populating SN)? I'd like to create and manage the account remotely. Also, they have a Verizon data card, so the IP doesn't stay the same. Any issue?

I foresee getting a 6 month subscription every Memorial day (ish) to cover the summer. No issue there, right? You guys going to be around for a while to make this setup worthwhile?

My goal is to just pay the subscription so I have 0 headaches getting these things going a few weekends a year and a month during the summer......
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rmeden
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Application Question Reply with quote

aeblank wrote:

These replays will have OTA (through a channelmaster DTV box - i at one point hacked them to be able to use it and used WiRNs, but its been a few years) most of the time but also have cable for a few weeks in the summer.

LaHo provides the same additional codes that WiRNS did, but not the ones that were on a boot CD. As a matter of fact, connecting to LaHo seems to erase those codes! (A ReplayTV update would have lost them too.. there were not done in a sustainable matter). I'll let Henry speak to if the channelmaster is provided by LaHo.

Quote:
With the use of Cable AND OTA, I'd like to set up both. Then I can log in to LaHo and disable the channels that aren't available (or they aren't using). So I'm back-ending the swap between cable and OTA.

That won't work. You configure lineups on the PercData website and then those lineups are presented to the ReplayTV. You still need to configure them on the ReplayTV. If you disabled the channels at PercData, the lineup would still be there... just without guide data.

Quote:
I read reference to having to log in (or create an account?) from the network that the replays are on. Why is that? Just so the service knows what account to associate the replay with (for the auto-populating SN)?

Yes.. that's only for auto-populating the serial number. The wrong serial number was a common source of setup problems. I'm available to help and we can just do it together. (I can see the logs and what serial number is not found, then copy/paste)

Quote:
I foresee getting a 6 month subscription every Memorial day (ish) to cover the summer. No issue there, right? You guys going to be around for a while to make this setup worthwhile?

Correct.. no issues. Our goal is to be around for a very long time.... that's the whole point... keep the devices usable.
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dstoffa
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Application Question Reply with quote

aeblank wrote:

Does LaHo have remote codes for my DTV box, or could it? I'm not sure which replays were "hacked" to work with one, and it'd be nice to just know. It's a channelmaster 700 or 7000 or something like that. I can find the exact model, its just not handy right now.


There is a native IR code that will work a CM-7000 Set Top Box. The only issue is that the native codeset has no "enter", so you may see 3 seconds of the previous channel when your RTV begins to record a show.

So no worries about over-writing a hack... the penalty is just a slower channel change. I want to say the native code is "0144"
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hdonzis
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, as Doug pointed out, the Channel Master code is pre-built into the ReplayTV. That has nothing to do with WiRNS or LaHo...

The other thing is that LaHo provides an automatic DTV channel lineup under Digital Cable Box when you select an OTA lineup in you account. It works well with many DTV converters, I think that the CM-7000 has been reported to work fine with this technique as well (with WiRNS). Basically that LaHo provides the digital channels as the channel x 10 + subchannel, so that channel 12-1 comes out as 121, for example. Then you just have to fine tune the IR Blaster for the correct number of digits for the DTV, like 3 digits, so that it outputs 2-1 as 021, for example. It could be that the correct number of digits may be 4 instead of 3, that depends on the DTV converter. Doug says the code for the CM-7000 doesn't support the enter key, so that makes it delay changing channels, but it should still work correctly tuning subchannels using the LaHo lineup. If that doesn't work out, then you can simply setup your LaHo account to use the lineup that you were using before and edit out the channels as you say, and then just use it as a set top box control...

Henry
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dstoffa
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hdonzis wrote:
Yes, as Doug pointed out, the Channel Master code is pre-built into the ReplayTV. That has nothing to do with WiRNS or LaHo...

The other thing is that LaHo provides an automatic DTV channel lineup under Digital Cable Box when you select an OTA lineup in you account. It works well with many DTV converters, I think that the CM-7000 has been reported to work fine with this technique as well (with WiRNS). Basically that LaHo provides the digital channels as the channel x 10 + subchannel, so that channel 12-1 comes out as 121, for example. Then you just have to fine tune the IR Blaster for the correct number of digits for the DTV, like 3 digits, so that it outputs 2-1 as 021, for example. It could be that the correct number of digits may be 4 instead of 3, that depends on the DTV converter. Doug says the code for the CM-7000 doesn't support the enter key, so that makes it delay changing channels, but it should still work correctly tuning subchannels using the LaHo lineup. If that doesn't work out, then you can simply setup your LaHo account to use the lineup that you were using before and edit out the channels as you say, and then just use it as a set top box control...

Henry


Unless you have some bastard OTA channel with a sub that is in the double digits (like in NY back in they day with 3.10 and the WJLP crap), you will do fine with fine-tuning your RTV Custom IR Settings (Press "Zones" when selecting the "cable box" to send three digits and leading zeroes. (Although I think three digits means it will send leading zeroes... been a while...)

My CM-7000 works this most awesome....

[p.s.]
By the way.... Good on you mates to help out blokes and sheilas with OTA setup with LaHo... Great with the lineup trick.. May want to advertise that.... saying that, "Hey!! LaHo can serve your RTV OTA is you have ____ STB"
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aeblank
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome news on most of it!

I don't think I had enter on "my" hack anyway. Never knew there was a stock IR code that worked. DOH! Great that LaHo just gives the 3-digit channel. Back in the day I had to do all sorts of re-mapping to make that happen.

Is there some way to "ease" the back/forth from cable/OTA?

I guess it wouldn't even be that bad to just have EMPTY guide (as rmeden said would happen). There aren't THAT many channels (cable OR OTA) to scroll through, if they where empty. They'd be grouped anyway. Recordings wouldn't be trying to happen. So that isn't *all* bad.

I suppose I could make up instructions to go back/forth, but if there is *any* glitch, I'm getting phone calls and trying to remotely troubleshoot, etc. BLEAH.

Thanks for the replies. I'll be using this service when the time comes.

Oh, is there any way to confirm the 0144 code, other than doing it? I have a replay, but not sure if I have a DTV box, on hand.
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hdonzis
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aeblank wrote:
Is there some way to "ease" the back/forth from cable/OTA?


I can't think of anything that I'm sure will work for you. You can certainly have both lineups in your LaHo account, so that choosing which one from the Replay will be easy. I was going to suggest that you simply setup both lineups on your Replay, but you won't be able to control which input it will record from, so that won't work. The only thing I can think of is that you simply change your Replay input between Cable and OTA and hope that it changes all the recording stations for you. It's supposed to do that, that if you change the lineup and the station numbers change, that it updates all your recordings for you, but my experiece has been that it doesn't always work and then the recordings don't record. But, that's the best I can suggest, just have both lineups at the ready on your LaHo account, and simply switch which one you have setup on the Replay...

Henry
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rmeden
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It *MAY* work as you hope, guess you won't know until you try it... which may be hard if you're remote. Maybe do testing locally?

Guide data is provided via a station-id. So even if you disable Cable WABC via the PercData web site, if the same station-id exists on OTA it would populate the data. They may have different station ids, I don't know. (you can see the station ids in a lineup report on the Perc web site)

Come to think of it, I think if you have multiple inputs, the ReplayTV maps them to display different channel numbers. The guide may not look so bad.... when you disable cable, there will just be a block at the beginning or end without data.

On recording, make sure you tell the ReplayTV to only record recurring stuff on the OTA channels. Those will always be there. Cable only shows won't record because you'll remove the guide data.

BTW, you'll need to remove the cable lineup in advance of losing cable so the guide data is gone at the right time. (not an issue if you don't have recurring cable recordings)

So, needs testing.. but this may just work!
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aeblank
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wrote this before the previous reply, so I was replying to hdonzis.....

I think I can live with that. A big part of the reason for the replays is so that my dad can record the tigers games. There aren't a whole lot of season recordings.

I suppose I could have both lineups, and then in the disable channels area, they have a list of which to disable for what condition (cable vs. non). I suppose the non-cable would have 100 added to them, and the normal cable (no cable box) would not. So every channel would just have to be toggled on if it was off, and off if it was on.

What do you think?
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hdonzis
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking that building on what you said and what Robert said, that maybe a way to go would be to use the LaHo account login to disable and enable the channels for what's being used at the time, causing all the channels to be there all the time, but guide data only on the channels actually being used...

However, I think it will have the same problem as just switching lineups on the Replay. If you have a recording for a station that's on both OTA and Cable, then the Replay will setup the recording with a channel number, because it has to use one or the other if it's on both. Actually, what I should say is that recordings always have channels numbers, and that's what the Replay uses to record, but what Robert is explaining is that channels have station IDs, and that is ulitmately how the Replay sets up the recordings. But, it doesn't record by station ID, it records by channel and input. So, it is part of the net connect getting guide and channels to change the channel number for stations when the station ID moves to a different channel number. If that doesn't happen, then you either don't get recordings or you end up recording the wrong channel or input...

So, I think your safest will be to change the input on the Replay, which should adjust everything, and then double check the "important" recordings to make sure they have the correct channel number...

Henry
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rmeden
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hdonzis wrote:
If you have a recording for a station that's on both OTA and Cable, then the Replay will setup the recording with a channel number, because it has to use one or the other if it's on both. Actually, what I should say is that recordings always have channels numbers, and that's what the Replay uses to record, but what Robert is explaining is that channels have station IDs, and that is ulitmately how the Replay sets up the recordings.


The station-id is used to for guide data. So some "disabled" cable stations may still have guide data.

I suspect ReplayTV uses its *OWN* (re-mapped) channel number for recordings. If that is the case, you'll be fine.. just set the recording on the OTA version of the station.

We can discuss theory all we want.. this setup just needs testing. I think it's likely to work, so worth pursueing. The fact that your Dad won't be doing recurring recordings may allows you keep the cable channels configured. Your dad will just know that channels 100+ are not usable except in the summer.
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hdonzis
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rmeden wrote:
I suspect ReplayTV uses its *OWN* (re-mapped) channel number for recordings. If that is the case, you'll be fine.. just set the recording on the OTA version of the station.


There is no suspecting, the channel number it uses for recordings is inside the show recording information: http://www.wirns.com/twiki/ReplayShow, and GuideParser5 will reveal all this internal information. WiRNS has to be very careful dealing with channel numbers because there's the displayed channel number (the re-mapped one), the turning channel number, and the recording channel number. If you look at that information on show recordings, you will see that there is a channel number in there several times, reflecting the different channel numbers that the Replay uses...

However, what I have determined for absolute sure is that the Replay ultimately uses the channel number in the recording, and it takes a net connect or a input selection change to change those channel numbers, using the station ID to determine the updated channel number. And, there is no doubt that sometimes it does not update the channel number in the recording, and then it ends up recording the wrong channel...

The information about what to record is only determined during the net connect. So, if you had a recording scheduled which was available on two different lineups, it wouldn't be the recording itself that would determine which channel it was going to use. If the channel was still available and simply didn't have guide data, it would still want to record shows from that channel, and without guide data would simply not record anything. It wouldn't switch to another channel on a different lineup that has the show in the guide. Only the net connect indicating a change in the channel lineup will cause the Replay to adjust its recording's channel numbers and input...

Henry
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dstoffa
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

aeblank wrote:

Is there some way to "ease" the back/forth from cable/OTA?


Set up both lineups in PercData / LaHo.
The CM-7000 supports S-Video... So use that in Line 2.
Connect the Cable TV to either the RF input or Line 1.

When you configure the Replay, set up both.

When the guide data is populated, I believe that each service (OTA, Cable) will be grouped in a block (of 1000).

When the time comes to go from OTA to cable, or the other way around, just add / remove the channels in the Replay... (Setup / Add or Remove Channels)...

Seems simple enough. No need to touch the input settings at all...

Quote:

Oh, is there any way to confirm the 0144 code, other than doing it? I have a replay, but not sure if I have a DTV box, on hand.


Not that I know of....
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hdonzis
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dstoffa wrote:
When the time comes to go from OTA to cable, or the other way around, just add / remove the channels in the Replay... (Setup / Add or Remove Channels)...


That's all great as long as you don't have any already scheduled recordings to worry about. Removing the channels won't help with changing the scheduled recordings to use the enabled channels...

I guess it all kinds of depends on how things are setup. If it is setup for cable with the recordings that go with cable, and also setup for OTA with the recordings that go with OTA, then it should all be fine, nothing will really change. Or, you could just factory reset it each time and start over fresh from scratch setting it up for the environment it is in...

Anyway, it is going to be the scheduled recordings that are going to be pretty much the only issue. If you setup new recordings after setting up the video environment, those are obviously going to be fine...

Now, at that point, if you don't have any issues with existing recording schedules, what's the easiest way to change video environments, that's a different matter. Enabling and disabling lots of channels just so you don't have to reconfigure the video inputs isn't clear that would really be helpful. Someone is going to have to do something to change the video environment. I would think that simply changing the input selections on the Replay would be the easiest. And, simply having both video environments already setup in your LaHo account is going to make changing the video inputs the easiest...

Henry
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aeblank
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2016 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Replying to my own super-old thread.
Likely going to test this out this weekend, as we're doing a spur-of-the-moment trip up there (then *I* can do this in person instead of directing someone remotely).

Is the DTV box I have CM-7000, I think, listed as a cable box? In other words, multiple people said that it's "in there", but how do I find/use it?

we'll see how it goes.. I will be pretty busy, but hope to carve out a little time for it.
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dstoffa
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

aeblank wrote:
Replying to my own super-old thread.
Likely going to test this out this weekend, as we're doing a spur-of-the-moment trip up there (then *I* can do this in person instead of directing someone remotely).

Is the DTV box I have CM-7000, I think, listed as a cable box? In other words, multiple people said that it's "in there", but how do I find/use it?

we'll see how it goes.. I will be pretty busy, but hope to carve out a little time for it.


Check out earlier in this thread. The only trick is getting the "fine tuning" screen up when setting up your box.

Not sure how LaHo treats OTA (i.e. - DBS Satellite or CableTV...) When you select the box brand, choose Pioneer, then code 0144, then press Zones to get to the fine tuning screen. Have it send three digits.

The native code 0144 has no "Enter" key, but since you will be using LaHo, it is possible the updated CM-7000 code will be loaded. I wouldn't know what to look for at that point....
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Glenn1963
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dstoffa wrote:
but since you will be using LaHo, it is possible the updated CM-7000 code will be loaded


If it's not in this list, the codes are identical to what ReplayTV provided.
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2016 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LaHo maps OTA to Digital Cable, but some folks need to use a Dish or local cable company lineup to get the channels right.
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